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You raise some tough questions. I feel for you. To me you can still be gay and never have sex with someone of the same gender. I think it is about who you are attracted to sexually not how you act on those feelings. For me I identify as gender qeer, but that is a more political identity than anything else. I don’t like all the stereotypes associated with a binary gender system so I don’t choose to participate in it. Biologically I am not confused though - I’m female. As far as sexuality though I think most people fall on a spectrum. If you only have ever had sexual or romantic feelings towards one person of the same sex and none since I don’t think that makes you gay but I don’t think you are straight either.

My grandma and I actually had a convo about this once. She had professed to being attracted to women but she wasn’t gay because she had never acted on it. Now really I think she is Bi because she certainly likes the men folk too, lol! Not that I really want to think about my grandma in that way!! But I think that it’s too bad there is such a stigma in society that makes it hard for people to reconcile their inner feelings and urges.

I believe people should identify however they feel most comfortable… that it is a personal choice. But above all else I think it is super important to just be honest about what that is. You’ll save yourself a lot of heartache.

Wow csmc… you seem to know a lot. Now you’ve got me thinking…

In many ways, viewing sexuality as binary is more prohibitive than helpful. I agree with Kinsey in this respect: most people fall somewhere on a scale running from homosexuality to heterosexuality, and almost no one is purely one or the other. However, because of socialization, people may suppress a homosexual impulse and only act on the heterosexual one. If the desire to be with those of the same sex is mild, the person may not even be aware of it! Personally, I think that one homosexual relationship no more makes a person gay than one heterosexual relationship makes a gay person straight. I’m a heterosexual female. Very, very occasionally, I’m attracted to women, and circumstances have only allowed me to act on this once. I am still attracted to that girl, but identify as heterosexual, because the likelyhood of my being interested in a gay relationship at a later date is very low.
I also want to point out the distinction between what a person identifies as and what they are attracted to, which are linked but not synonymous. This partially accounts for the distinction you’ve notice between butch and femme lesbians. Both are attracted to women (with variation for individual taste of course) but what they want to BE in that realtionship is very different. This is not to say that butch take the ‘male role’ and femmes take the ‘female role’. Assuming this can get you beaten up in some bars. But it is a socially constructed way to visually announce how they want to be percieved and reacted to. (caveat: I am by no means an expert on gay culture, there are plenty of good resources out there for a better and more in depth explination of these complicated social interactions that too commonly get boiled down to one persons’ opinion.)
My kneejerk assumption is that any person I meet is likely to be bisexual, with a strong leaning toward one side or the other. While this is more complicated that the gay/straight binary, it seems to be more accurate.

Just a question, are the two of you, friends?

You guys are making my head pound. Continue…

Haha, no, I don’t know csmc. (at least as far as I know!)
Normally I don’t like to get too far into this in comments, because I feel preachy, but since you asked for more…

I think it’d be good to mention that all we’re talking about is labels. Human sexuality has far to many variations for any grouping system to be complete. The best we can hope for is some sort of shared terminology, so that a person can say ‘I’m bisexual, and polyamourous.’ and the listener would understand that this person is to some degree sexually interested in both sexes, and can carry on more than one relationship at a time.

Now that I’ve gotten myself into it, I feel like I should say a word about polyamory. This is not polygamy, which has some very scary connotations. Polyamory is a broad term, but means that amoung a group of people, there is more than one consensual sexual relationship going on. This is NOT swinging or cheating. Everyone is aware of an okay with everyone else, and these are ongoing relationships, not one night stands. (A person in a relationship who occasionally invites others to join the pair is a grey area, but not usually considered polyamourous. A person in a steady relationship who dates other people could be considered polyamorous, but is more likely termed in an ‘open relationship’. The difference here is nebulous, but mostly has to do with one of the relationships being more ’serious’ than the others. A girl who agreed with her boyfriend to be in an open relationship with him has a reasonable expectation that any other relationships he may have will not impact her. Key to an open relationship is disclosure. The hypothetical boyfriend must tell both his girlfriends that he is seeing someone else as well.) Polyamorous relationships can be all-inclusive, (everyone is sexually interested in everyone else.) or not. To give a concrete example: I met a girl, who was with her boyfriend. The girl(1) excuses herself, to meet up elsewhere with her girlfriend(girl2). Girl1 could be discribed as bisexual and polyamourous. The boyfriend is in a relationship with girl1, but not girl2. Some people would say he is polyamourous, because he is okay with his girlfriend being in a relationship with more than one person, and some people wouldn’t, because he is in only one relationship. I don’t know what his relationship to girl2 would be termed, but they were definately friends.

Okay. That was polyamory 101.

Now, for a little more on a question you actually asked: the ‘born gay’ question. This is a majorly loaded question, because on the one hand, it’s not your fault if it turns out that you were born gay, but on the other, it means that someone could theoretically find a ‘gay gene’ and make it so that there are no more gay people. (Or, in a more unlikely turn of events, could make someone gay.) Therefore, it’s a scary question. I think that like most human behaviors, the causes of homosexual behavior are too many to be so easily boiled down. I think that people are born with a predisposition toward many things. Lung cancer, for example, is partially genetically determined. However, you are much less likely to develop it if you don’t smoke. (sorry for the macabre metaphor.) Similarly, I think a given person is born with a predispostion to like the opposite (or the same, or both) sex. But I think a lot of social things have to happen after that in order for a person to realize and act on any leanings they might have. There are many people (in this culture) who don’t realize they are interested in the same sex until late in life, and some people who know from childhood. That to me says that the causes are more complicated than simply being born one way or another.

Okay, that’s an awful lot. I’ll check back in a few days, and if you want yet more, I’d be happy to write more. There’s lots: Gender Identification, asexuality, more on bisexuality I didn’t get to last time, and how other cultures define ‘normal’ sexuality, for a start. Also, I’d certainly be interested in commenting on any specific questions that you might have about these sorts of things.

Hi Liz,

Are you a professor of some sort? You know so much!

I never knew polyamory existed until now. It’s quite a warped concept, don’t you think?

Yeah, I’d like to hear about Gender Identification, asexuality, bisexuality, how cultures define “normal” sexuality… everything - I want to hear it all! You can take your time, of course… no pressure
I agree. Labelling and having to define ourselves is a tricky part. But we need to since the world has asked us to define who we are. If you don’t fit the mould, people don’t accept you. Plus, a lot of this is still taboo in many cultures.

In the TV show I’m watching, girl1 who recently started a relationship with girl2 feels that she should come out to her parents about it. Girl2 on the other hand tells her that that’s risky and some times, coming out is not all that it’s hyped out to be. When Girl2 came out to her mom, her mom rejected her and they have not reconciled since.

From what I gathered, girl2 had an abortion a few years ago and this caused her to ’switch sides’. Girl1 on the other hand, was just attracted to girl2.

Which means therefore, we might not be born gay but due to things that have happened in our past, things we may want to put behind us or not want to face, the easiest thing to do in such situations is to turn our backs and walk the opposite direction rather than face the consequences.

Yeah. I’m just rambling. Lack of sleep alters my train of thought. Not that I’m usually coherent.

Sometimes I feel all of this boils down to sex. Without it, you won’t have barriers and you can love everybody appropriately or how you see fit. Bringing sex into the picture makes it complicated.

I don’t have any specific questions yet but when I do, I’ll sure to post it up here. Thanks again and hope to hear from you soon.

I’m still puzzled by the concept of polyamory. I can’t believe it actually but like I said, it’s something I learned yesterday so it’ll take awhile to understand how it works.

I’m glad you’re still curious! These are very difficult concepts to grasp when still new to them, so don’t worry if you don’t understand immediately, and don’t be afraid to ask me to clarify anything. (Also, don’t take my word as gospel: Obviously, anything I say is my opinion created from personal experience and classes I have taken, so is subject to my biased viewpoint. If you really want a balanced view of something, talk to as many people familiar with the subject as possible.)
No, I’m not a professor. I just benefitted by going to a college that was very open to individual varience, resulted in many interesting people for me to meet. Also, I took advantage of the Gender and Women’s studies department, which had many, many classes on different aspects of the interactions between gender, sex, and society.

I wouldn’t call polyamory a warped concept, any more than any other sexual/social interation anyway. Polyamory really isn’t so unusual. When my parents were dating, it was not unusual for a person to be dating more than one person at once, so long as no one was ‘going steady’. While this is a flawed example, it does show that being involved with more than one person and everyone being aware of it isn’t such a strange concept.
I looked over the wikipedia article on polyamory, and it looks like you might be interested. It is in depth and long, but would answer almost any question on modern polyamory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory
Keep in mind that wikipedia can be a great resource, but it is updated by anyone who wants to, so it can be completely wrong.

A quick word on asexuality:
Asexuality can refer to a person with an androgynous appearance, but when speaking of sexuality, it refers to a person who is uninterested in sex. Like the range of sexual interest from homosexual to heterosexual, there is a scale of just plain sexual interest. Asexuals are people who have very little or no desire for sex. This does not prevent them from forming close emotional relationships, or from enjoying a good cuddle, but sex isn’t on the menu. I have a good friend who is asexual, and she has a very hard time sometimes, because she does form very close emotional attatchments that resemble dating with people who are sexual. (There are so few asexuals that trying to date each other is somewhat impossible.) This is difficult both for her and for those she dates, because she is completely capable of loving those she dates and vice versa, she just cannot satisfy them sexually.
Most asexuals have been uninterested in sex for as long as they can remember, (which, when you think about it, almost makes more sense. We begin life uninterested in sex, but then most people change.) but some have other reasons. Some people become asexual for the ‘retreating’ reason that you mentioned in your example about the lesbian girl who stopped seeing men after she had an abortion. In my opinion, ‘retreating’ is a psychologically unhealthy behavior, whether a person is walling off all of their sexual urges, or just their interest in one of the sexes. I think it is equally unhealthy for a heterosexual or bisexual girl to deny interest in men after a bad experience with one man as it is for a homosexual man to pretend interest in women in order to fit a cultural norm.

More later, I need to do a little research before the ‘normal sexuality in other cultures’ installment. Next up, gender identification.

It is interesting you should mention wikipedia as a source - a friend of mine mentioned that to me the other day when I told her about you…
So asexuals don’t feel sexual… Do asexuals get attracted then?

PEople who retreat can’t help but to stave off sex. If one was raped, doing anything remotely sexual would bring up bad memories.
I’m waiting…

hmmm…Am I being compared to an encyclopedia?
Yes, asexuals feel attracted, but let me qualify my terms a bit. As far as I understand it, they can fall in love and wish to cuddle and spend lots of time with that a person, but just aren’t interested in sex, feeling little or no sexual desire. If you’re asking whether or not asexuals get horny, I would say no. Crushes, however, which are mostly a product of admiration and interest (but not necessarily desire) are definately possible. The line is fuzzy of course, and it has to be taken on something of a case-by-case basis.
If you will allow me an extended analogy in an effort to explain aesexuality in a different way: Pretend for a second that you, as an individual, don’t need to eat to live. You also don’t get hungry. You can aesthetically appreciate food visually and understand cooking as a skill. You may well find the changes food undergoes before getting to the table interesting, or may be utterly ignorant of them, but either way, you have no interest in taking part in the eating. Everyone thinks it’s weird that you don’t eat, and asks you how you possibly could go without. At some points in your life, you may even eat just to avoid the social stigma. However, you find the whole process of putting food in your mouth, masticating it into an unrecognizable mush and then actually swallowing it kind of gross.

The asexuals I have talked to (all three of them, what a diverse population to draw conclusions from! Yeesh.) all report confusion as to why anyone would be interested in something as icky as sex.

Aesexuals are usually as socially astute as anyone else, and can feel like they are missing out on a great deal of social interaction because they never had any desire to learn to flirt. Some react to this with discomfort, and some try to study the interactions (cooking) in an effort to understand. The asexual girl I know best has confided in my several times about conversations she has been in where she felt like she was entirely missing the subtext due to inexperience.

About bad experiences and retreat: Of course many rape victims sexually retreat. I don’t expect people to recover from abuse immediately, but I do view it as recovery. They are psycologically injured, (in addition to in any other manner) and ideally, should in time (maybe an awfully long time) recover. The people I really worry about are those who seem to be making no effort to recover.

Okay, on to Gender Identification.
We’ve been talking mostly about sexuality, which generally refers only to what a given person is interested in. Gender identification is mostly what a given person wants to be in a sexual or social interaction.
I touched on this briefly earlier when I was discussing butch lesbians. They don’t want to be men, (usually) but for social reasons, take on the appearance of one so they will be reacted to as the more powerful, agressive party in the relationship. You may have noticed, however, that almost no butch lesbians are ‘passing’ or even attempting to pass as male. They are wearing the props of a male character, but the preformance isn’t trying to convince you. (No butch lesbian I know of has surgically removed her breasts, for instance.)
This brings me directly to current Gender Theory, and its big idea. Gender is a Preformance.
Okay. So What?
If gender is a preformance, it is a choice, and therefore not tied to sex, which in this case refers purely to the biology a person is born with.
Gender = psycho-social perception, not sex.
A person’s gender is what they psychologically identify with being, and socially wish to be treated as. An F to M tranny is a transexual who was born female, but thinks of themselves as and wishes to be responded to as a male. (FTM and MTF are the most common abbreviations. Transexual can be abbreviated to tranny for non-academic purposes, it is not a term with negative connotations. While I’m on a terminology kick, transexuals generally refer to gender reassignment surgery in two parts: top and bottom surgery. Top meaning double mastectomy, bottom being some variation and gentital alteration. Before surgery is an option, most FtM transexuals go on testosterone, usually called T. This deepens the voice, and changes fat and muscle distrobution throughout the body.) Usually, transexuals are trying very hard to have a complete preformance of gender. They don’t want to just be wearing the props, they want the preformance to be so flawless that a person they meet isn’t even aware of anything unusual. The social cues of a perfect preformance cause those people that a hypothetical transexual would interact with to simply treat them as the gender they are preforming without any concious ‘this person is dressed as a man and therefore clearly wants me to respond to them as one’ thoughts.

Like sexual interest, gender identification is also a scale, although a slightly more complicated one. Most people identify closely enough with the gender associated with their sex that they never experience the ‘trapped in the wrong body’, depression, or body disconnect that most transexuals report. A discomfort profound enough to cause a person to try to live as the opposite sex than they were born with is rare, and is the extreme end of the scale.
What a persons’ psychological gender is is almost certainly inborn. In an unfortunate incident in 1967, John Money, a prominent sexologist at Johns Hopkins Hospital, recommended that David Reimer, a boy who had lost his penis during a botched circumcision, (you don’t want to know) be sexually reassigned and raised as a girl. Despite being raised as a girl from the age of 18 months, Reimer was never happy as a girl, and when he learned of his sex reassignment, he immediately reverted to living as a male, despite years of hormone therapy and social indoctrination. His case, as well as several cases of intersexed infants with conditions such as cloacal exstrophy who have been reassigned and raised as females, suggest that gender identity is innate and immutable.

I sort of want to jump into an explination of cross-dressers, but I don’t want to confuse you too much. Suffice it to say, cross dressing is not transexuality, and had little to do with gender. It’s more about fetish.

On that cheerful Freudian note,
until next time!

I didn’t know you replied! I’d been waiting and waiting and I never saw any sign that you might have replied until TODAY! I’m so late! It’s been a month!

Poor David Reimer… !!!

I can’t believe cross dressing is a fetish… HAHAHA… that’s funny…

I would think it would be psychological. Anyway, hopefully you return!

I’ve always thought transexuals were hard to understand.. they’d actually want to go through all that …